Helen Kirkum Interview | Podcast
0:00
There's a few reasons that I'm so motivated to work with second hand shoes. Just the mass of waste that's available. There's just not really a system in place at the moment for post-consumer waste, and I think there's a lot of problems surrounding that, whether it's the communication. People don't know how to recycle their shoes, people don't know how to clean and look after their shoes. There's just such resource of waste that's not going anywhere anytime soon. So if I can make some sort of dent in that for good, you know, create beautiful, creative, thought provoking products that are not made from virgin materials, then I think that's.
U2
0:41
Today we're here joined by Helen Kirkham. Helen Kirkham is a talented artist and designer known for innovative approach to creating wearable art. Her primary medium of choice is used and discarded pairs of shoes. She's highly regarded as a pioneer in the world of footwear, as she found a way to take these old, unwanted shoes and actually recycle them into new pairs. Helen is also a businesswoman, running her own sustainable design studio that has collaborated with the likes of Gucci, Lacoste, Adidas, Asics, Reebok, Timberland, Patagonia, sun, Bethany Williams. Even Takashi Murakami recently collaborated with lime for her most recent runway show in London, and right now she's at the Birkenstock headquarters, apparently. So that's, uh, some more some more collaborations in in the way. How are you, Helen?
U1
1:43
Hello. What a great intro. Um, yeah. I'm good, thank you. I'm really good. Yeah, I meant the, um, Birkenstock studio space. They've set up a space in, um, in Shoreditch that will run for a year, and it's basically a space where, um, they invited us to be the residents here. So we're like, the first artist in residence in the space. Um, and we are currently making some furniture from waste Birkenstock materials. Wow.
U2
2:11
Most furniture pieces that you work on.
U1
2:14
Yeah. So we made a, um, like a beanbag kind of seat for London Design for last September. Um, we actually worked with an amazing interior design studio called two LG studio, um, who are based in London, and they invited us to be part of their exhibition, which was called You Can Sit With Us. And they basically invited different artists and designers to design a chair. Um, so that was our first dipping our toe in the water of furniture. Wow. Um, and we really liked it because I think now we have, um, a kind of interesting technique and a way to utilize the materials. Um, and we work a lot with leathers, like they kind of translate very naturally into home wear and products. So, um, so yeah, that was our first one. So when Birkenstock approached us for this project, I really wanted to make another piece of furniture. So I managed to wangle it so I could do that. Wow.
U2
3:13
Well, I yeah, I do see you kind of, uh, exploring, uh, different, almost like mediums, I guess, within your own lane. But I feel like sometimes you're put into this box of, like, footwear. Um, but like, for example, your most recent collection, like, you had all sorts of, uh, different pieces from from outfits to, like, bags that were super into. I love the the bags with the, with the shoelaces. Those are crazy to me. Like how. Yeah. I mean, to me it's like, how long does that even take to to make it back? Like,
U1
3:53
well, it's so interesting because that was exactly what we kind of realized as well. At the beginning, we were we were working primarily with shoes and making shoes, which is a great, um. It's super easy to understand, but we realized as we were going through the process that we had like, um, tongue linings, for example, from sneaker tongues that we weren't using in our production or, um, shoelaces that we weren't using in production. So the reason we actually developed a lot of the bags was so that we could find a use for other materials that we were, that were coming through our system, basically, and our kind of recycling process. Um, so that's why we developed. Yeah, the, the shoe lace bags. Um, and then we also developed now a shoe lace kind of slip on as well, um, which is all woven shoe laces. And then it has the eaglets of like the end of the shoe laces, just like crazy sticking out of the shoe. 1s Um, so yeah, I think those sort of processes, they, it's hard to quantify, like how long a specific thing would take you to do. Um, but a lot of our work is so labor intensive. I mean, it's really always, um, a labor of love. Like putting in all those hours to make sure it looks the way we want.
U2
5:10
Yeah, yeah. And I guess that's what allows you to, to really be able to, like, take that and approach different completely, uh, mediums per se, and go into furniture and, and, um, yeah. Because you, you do you do have a history of like knowing how to make stuff with your hands. Uh, take us back to, like, the beginning, like, uh, uh, you after you graduated, you you worked for a while for Adidas. Then you consulted a bit for Yeezy. But, uh, tell us, how did you kind of end up here at this point? Right.
U1
5:49
Well, I don't know. Um, no, I think I, um. 1s I swear I studied footwear at BA and then a master's in footwear as well, so I think I had quite a linear start to the process where I was like, this is, you know, I'm studying how to make a shoe now I'll go into the world and make shoes. So that kind of seemed quite straightforward. Um, but I think when I was at RCA, I really delve a bit deeper into kind of unmaking shoes and trying to challenge a little bit the construction methods and how, like shoes were produced. Um, and so because of that, I think these little sparks started like going in my head that I could do something more than just, um, just shoe design in a traditional sense, I guess. Um, so, yeah, when I graduated, I worked at Adidas, which was amazing experience. I was in Herzog and their headquarters there. Um, and yeah, learn a lot with them. Worked on some really interesting projects. Um, and then was there for a year, and then I decided to, um, set up my own business and then to kind of support the business, I did some freelance, uh, consultancy. So, yeah, working with Yeezy, um, which was, um, another super interesting experience. And I definitely you have to kind of earn your stripes very quickly and learn very quickly on the job in those, sort of those sort of environments. So I think it kind of threw me into the deep end of, um, you know, working with clients and how to manage expectations and things like that. Right,
U2
7:26
right. So what what do you think, uh, 1s caused this spark, uh, that you you mentioned this spark, this idea of, like, really going independently to what I kind of view as going almost against what the industry norm is like. Where did that come from?
U1
7:49
I think, um. I'm good at trusting my gut, and I think I have a good, like, intuition. And there was something, I think what I started on my ma. Because at that point I started working with waste materials. So, um, I'd been to a recycling center and seen, like, the absolute mass of waste that they had in that space. And I just thought this, I've got to do something with this. This could be, um, this is such a, like, excellent raw material, but also it's such a beautiful material that's kind of disregarded. Um, and I think because I'm always connected to I'm always interested in exploring people's relationships with products and relationships with material. And I think that a discarded shoe or like an end of life shoe that someone's thrown away, um, has so much holds so much history in it about somebody's relationship with that product that I think that's why I always I'm really drawn to old shoes in that way. Um, so yeah, I think I, I always just found it interesting. And I think that's kind of the more artistic side of me as well, that I'm not I don't come from this very design, product design. Kind of avenue. I'm coming from a much more like, thoughtful and like emotional point of view, I think, when I make products. So I think that that's where this kind of artistic element comes out. Mhm. Um, and yeah, I think I just, um, I felt like an urge that what I'd started at my ma wasn't finished and that I felt like working in a traditional sense within a bigger, um, business. Just, I didn't feel like I had the freedom to follow those ideas to fruition. So, um, I just kind of cut and run and hope for the best. Right? And now here I am.
U2
9:44
Yeah. Yeah. I guess it was a good decision.
U1
9:48
Um, yeah. Yeah, it was scary at the time. I
U2
9:51
can imagine, I can imagine, but yeah, I mean, it's a it's a kind of a huge problem that you're bringing attention to because, I mean, I read online, according to the BBC, that more than 23 billion like billion with a b pairs of shoes are made every year that like, that's so many more than there is people. And so it's a bit silly. Yeah. They're, they're gonna be, uh, kind of, uh, discarded. Right. And
U1
10:20
so definitely
U2
10:22
you mentioned these, like, recycling centres. How do you even find out? Like, uh, you know, they existed or like, how do you got get access to them? Because I feel like most people don't even know, um, you know, of the existence of rag houses and, like, these recycling centers that just. Process a lot of like the the kind of what gets put under the carpet of the industry per
U1
10:49
se. Yeah, definitely. Well, yeah. I mean, first of all, this the footwear industry or the fashion industry in general, but it's such a massive problem. It's such a flawed industry. And I think that it's always been super linear. The way that it is set up is just to consume like design, make, consume. And then that's the end. There's no there's never been a consideration for a circular process really until the last like ten, 15 years. So things have started changing. So I definitely feels like, um, there's a lot more access to kind of recycling centers and things now than there ever used to be. Um, so I think if I think about, like when I started my Ma 2015, I was going to, um, trade really by literally googling, like recycling centers in London, trying to get an appointment with someone and then just someone showing me like a bag of, like, muddy shoes and being like, do you want these? And I was like, okay. So I think it was, you know, it was definitely a bit of like trial and error. Um, in the early days, um, to see who would work with us and how it could work. And, um, Jose, who, um, has worked at trade ever since I was doing my Ma, there has always been a massive supporter of what I'm doing. And to be honest, he's really facilitated our partnership to grow. I think you have you need someone that, um, takes a bet on you and kind of is like, you know, because if you imagine me, you know, these recycling centres, they're processing so much stuff, they don't they're not really super open to students, just like rocking up and being like, can I have a bag of old shoes? Right. Um, so I think that we were really fortunate that, um, yeah, trade were willing to kind of support us in that way and, um, still support us now.
U2
12:46
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing for me. I've also kind of had the experience of, you know, visiting, you know, a rag house and these centers that are filled with just so many clothes and so many. And it's really like impactful because you don't normally see this. And it it does get you thinking like what can be done with this material. Like how can this be like repurposed like the circular approach that
U1
13:15
you, you were talking about, you believe,
U2
13:19
oh, do you believe that, um, 1s like repurposing is the future of production or do you feel like it's just kind of like a fad? I don't know, like,
U1
13:31
yeah, I think it has to be, um, and I think there's kind of there's room for everything. So with us, what we try and do is we really try and show the beauty in the pre-existing material. So we like to keep you know, the stitch marks, the thread, even the wear marks, the patterns and kind of marks and memories of the the life of the shoe. Because I think that helps tell the story of where the shoe has been and where it can go next. Um, whereas I think that a lot of, um, big recycling movements are kind of focused on, um, chemical recycling or like fiber recycling, breaking everything down into its component pieces, which I think is extremely valid and important. But I almost think you can get three whole more stages of life cycles in before you get to that point. So for me, I really feel like what we are trying to do and this kind of like upcycling movement is the middleman between this like very severe chemical and fiber recycling that will break everything down to its components and obviously landfill. Um. So. 1s Yeah, I that's why I think what we're doing is important. And I also think the way that we work with materials helps people to, um, understand what the material is. I think when you see our shoes or our products, it's kind of you get it. You're like, oh, it's a shoe made from shoes, right? Whereas sometimes when everything is broken down into its fibers and components, it's like the 1s the act of the material is trying to look like a virgin material. And that in itself can be problematic in some senses, because then people can't differentiate as easily between the two.
U2
15:27
Right? Right. So
U1
15:29
I don't know, I think that's I think there's room for everything, but my perspective is always that. 1s I like to show the human side of the material, I guess.
U2
15:40
Of course it tells a story. And there's a certain, like, beauty to that imperfection. I think there's there's this quote, um, of Martin Marcello that he said, the beauty of imperfection is more powerful than perfection itself. And I think, yeah, you're you're definitely expressing that in your work because you, you do see the stories that are kind of, uh, told through this, uh, almost sculpture, wearable sculpture that.
U1
16:14
Definitely. And I also think that the I mean, I love that quote for a start. That is just. 1s That's great. You should get that on my notebook. I always put that if you ever see on my Instagram, I always put like little quotes on, like the front of my notebook. So, like, inspire me right now. The quote is actually, um, well, I heard it on a podcast, but someone told me recently there's Kim Kardashian, which is embarrassing, but it says I didn't come this far just to come this far. Yeah, yeah. Um, anyway, so I'll add that one. Um, 1s so I got distracted by a quote, but the point is, yes. When I think when we started as well, we were I was very aware that the industry, the sneaker industry in general was so, you know, sneakers would end up on a shelf like so pristine, so shiny, so devoid of any kind of making that nobody would really understand the value of where that's come from. And, you know, going back to what you were saying earlier, about 23 billion pairs of shoes getting made every year, I think when people, um, can't see the process of making or can't aren't exposed to the process of making them, it's really hard to quantify the value of the product. Right. Um, so I think for me, I wanted to make shoes that were so obviously handmade that you couldn't get away from the fact that it was like, had somebody thought and ideas and handcraft within the product. Um, because you just didn't see that in sneaker culture, you know, in 2016. Right? Um, so, yeah, I, I, I do believe that that mindset is like shifting now. Um, but it's definitely, yeah, a message that we try and promote a lot.
U2
18:04
Right. 2s Going back to that quote. Um, 1s I wonder because I don't know your story. It's so it's so genuine in the sense of, uh, you know, you saw these recycling centers and then you were like, you know, maybe we could do something from this. Uh, but I wonder if, uh, you know, did did you ever feel some inspiration or was there inspiration from, uh, the work of Martin Margiela, or was it just you? Um, because he, he did something similarly with clothes. Right. But you were able to take it to the next level. I think he, he initially for his first collections would just like paint on top of shoes. Mhm. These were like the shoes, uh, that were presented and they were like new per se, but they weren't new. Um, yeah. You were able to take it like completely 180 and actually make new pairs completely like down to the sole being recycled, which is something that. I don't think anyone else has really, like, figured out, um, to do. At that level.
U1
19:25
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I think, I mean, people like Margiela, like Vivienne Westwood, like, you see those kind of, um, 1s names, like, as you, you know, I had a very traditional, like, fashion. Uh, ba so you're always inspired by, like, those sort of big brands. Um, and I think anyone for me, that was kind of going against the status quo or doing something that, um, either people didn't expect or people didn't really want them to do, I think that's those sort of kind of activists within like the fashion space have always appealed to me. Um, and yeah, definitely Margiela. I mean, he did like the glove, um, jackets and things like that. So he was always using alternative materials as a way to, you know, create newness. So I think that naturally, that kind of repurposing idea, um, has always existed within fashion. Um, so it's exciting that now it's having like a bit of a resurgence and people are starting to see the value of it, not just as an aesthetic thing, but also as a kind of culturally relevant and important thing, I guess.
U2
20:37
Yeah, I agree, I agree it's super important. Um, yeah. What are some other like, artists you would say that, uh, inspire your work or just like your creative creativity per se?
U1
20:49
I think I'm, um. 2s I always am more inspired, I would say, by, like, artists and, um, designers outside of the fashion realm. Um, so someone I always come back to is Rachel Whiteread, who is generic to Whiteread. I don't the, um, she's an amazing, um, like installation artist and she basically what the work that I always love from her. She makes casts from like household objects. So she would like cast a bath, for example, in plaster. But then the exhibition would be the cast, not the bath. So she always, um, she kind of reverses the process of, like, sculpting. And she always shows, like, the interior of things. So she would, like, cast a whole house. And then the, um, the exhibition would be the inside of a would be the cast. So you'd have, like, the mark from where you take the fireplace off and it's all burnt, or you peel like the wallpaper and it gets stuck. So, um,
U2
21:58
or things like that, basically. Um, I'm sure I could do a much better description of that, but, um, but yeah, she's always someone that I love because she kind of like, has hacking the process, but like in a different field. Um, so I love her. Um, I sort of, I think what books I've got in the studio. 1s Um, I think also painters I'm always quite inspired by. Like Jenny Saville was one of my really early inspirations. Her like, um, naked women that she paints that are like super textural, um, even like Francis Bacon and like Lucian Freud, like those sort of people. They use their material in such an expressive way and it's like really tactile and jumping from the page. I think those that's my um, 2s yeah, those are the sort of people that I find more inspiration from. And I think that's that's also because.
U1
23:01
Because I'm inspired so much by the shoes themselves. When I receive, like, the material that's almost 2s the material of the old shoe is like inspiration enough to make the product right? So then those other like, artistic references kind of come in as a way to like layer fabrics or create, um, uh, color palettes, things like that were always inspired by kind of artists for our color palettes as well. Um, so yeah, I think a lot of the work we do is basically like building a big collage or big painting.
U2
23:36
Right, right. Yeah. What are what are some of the like the, the craziest, uh, I guess reactions or or, um. 1s Yeah. From people that that you've gotten after they see that you cut a specific shoe up or what was that shoe that has gotten really like that kind of reaction because, yeah, you really just go at it. Just go for it. Yeah, yeah. I think, um, it's really funny because I've always made sure I think because I don't come from a sneaker head kind of background that I've never had, um, I've never placed, like a lot of value on the different sneaker products that maybe other people would place a lot of value on. So I think because of that, that's helped me to stay kind of naive to the hierarchy of the products. Um, and that allows us to just I think that allows us to create these like crazy combinations that other people that were maybe more into the sneaker game would have. Maybe. I think is sacrilege or kind of shy away from in some way. Um, so whenever we create material, we're always trying to have no hierarchy and pieces and even the any pieces that we deconstruct that has branding on it all just becomes a shape within the puzzle of the design. It's not like, oh, that's a, you know, whatever Gucci piece. So we need to make sure that's in pride of place. We kind of just build the material and think, use more the shapes and the colors to build the design rather than like what the cultural significance of the material. Maybe there's a good way to call it. Um, so
U1
25:25
yes, but we definitely do get reactions when we cut up, uh, like Off-White, Prada, Gucci, like those sort of things obviously. Do, um, create a bit of a stir because people aren't used to it. Mhm. Um, but what's amazing is we do because we make bespoke shoes as well for individual clients. Um, and some of our bespoke customers, they send us shoes like that, which is amazing. So one of our, one of my most early bespoke, um, it was a Prada, um, I don't know the name of the silhouette, but it was like Prada low top sneaker. Um, and then it was like the cactus Jack, um, Air Force ones, Off-White, Air Force one else was in the day or night shoe as well. So he literally just sent us basically his archive and was like, make something out of this. So when we have bespoke customers like that that really trust us and feel confident that what we're going to do is something better.
U2
26:30
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I can imagine how much. Uh,
U1
26:37
yeah. Um. 1s Putting that back into like how much that and final shoe caused can be what gets people's reaction. But truly like, uh. I don't know. There's there's another quote by Picasso that he said that every act of creation is first an act of destruction. And I think that's
U2
26:59
very much true and, and very much applies to, to your work. 1s That's me. I think that's the best way to find out how something's made to take it apart. Mhm. So and that was really the early days of when I was doing my ma um, I'd kind of had this really traditional upbringing at Northampton where I'd learned like how to make a shoe and learn everything like, um, the proper way of how to make a shoe. And then when I got to RCA, I kind of tried to unlearn how to make a shoe. So, so much of my first year of RCA was just, like, destroying things, right? 1s Um, and I remember I made this project and it was all about like, spaghettification. But when you go into a black hole, all your atoms will get, um, stretched into a single string of molecules. So
U1
27:51
this project that I did, this is very like art school Ma project, but, um, was all about, like, spaghettification. So I made this this shoe that was completely, um, exaggerated and like, all the components, like, strung out into bits. Wow. And they kind of makes so much sense how I ended up here. But yeah.
U2
28:13
Yeah, it seems like. Yeah, every step of the way was just. Yeah, trust in your gut. And it led you led you here. Definitely. I mean, through that journey, I'm sure like, especially because you were kind of a. Going against the status quo per se. I'm sure there were some struggles that you faced, like, um, what were some of those struggles that you faced along the way?
U1
28:41
I think, um, I think definitely when I was studying my M.A., I kind of had this idea that I, you know, to use these old shoes, basically. And, um. I did face a lot of backlash around the idea of actually using the the sneakers as the raw material, and so many people kind of advised me as to like, why don't you use those as inspiration to make something new? Or why don't you use the patterns or shapes to make a new product? And I that was really hard for quite a long period of time, because I felt like I was so sure that that wasn't the point. Like there was absolutely there was no point in making that. Like that's what everyone else is doing. That's not interesting. That's not innovative in any kind of way. So, um, so I think I've definitely had to learn along the way. Again, like I said earlier, to kind of trust my gut and just, um. 1s But I don't know. Just have a little pause. I think when like people are giving you advice, like so many people, when you do your own thing, we'll try and give you advice, tell you how to do it better, tell you how they think you should do it, how to run a business, how to you know, all these sorts of things. I'm sure you experienced a similar thing.
U2
29:55
Um, always the people that are not doing it that feel like they have a say.
U1
29:59
Yeah, or just give you like a one liner like, oh, why don't you do this? And you're like, great. Um, so I think that you just will always experience that when you're going off and you're kind of treading your own path. So, so it's just important to build a good relationship with yourself. I think to be able to, um, take a moment and think, is this useful? Is this what I want? Or is this, you know, somebody who's got my best intentions at heart, but actually, it's not the right thing that I need to be doing. So, um, 1s yeah, that didn't really answer the question, but I think basically just not it's hard. It did. Yeah. No, I think it definitely did. Uh, because yeah, that is that is part of the creative process to kind of ignore the, the outside noise and try to just hone in on what your vision is because truly, like, the only person that does see your vision is you yourself, like right in here and yeah. And truly like.
U2
31:07
Even as you like. Begin to try and communicate that vision like. 1s It's almost never as clear as it is up in here. And so it's staying true to that, I think. Yes, it's it's super important. Um. Oh, I remember as well. I can't remember who said it to me. I think it might have been one of my tutors, but when, um, I was kind of first starting to do all this, um, and they said, if it means something to you, it will mean something to someone else. And that's always stuck with me. Wow. Because I think it's just nice to sometimes when you think like, oh, what the what the hell am I doing? Like nobody gets it. And it's like, if it means something to you, it will probably mean something to someone else. Wow.
U1
31:53
That's quite nice.
U2
31:55
Beautiful. Yeah. No. And I think it it's true. Um, it. 1s It's very reflective of how I've seen you kind of, uh, approach everything you do, just like even meeting you in person. You seem like, very grounded. Um. Oh, thanks. Yeah. It's just. It's so common, uh, to especially, like fashion industry and whatnot. And people let different things get to their head, uh, and kind of get on their high horse. But, um, I think it's, it is super important to, to to dig deep into oneself and find that why find out why you're approaching the different, uh, you know, creative, uh, endeavors.
U1
32:48
Um, yeah. Yeah. And I think it's not um, also, sometimes it's not straightforward and you might not necessarily know, like, what the answer is, but I think you have to, uh, try and. 1s I feel like my kind of purpose is to try and understand what I'm doing, 1s because then you can do it better, I guess. Um, but I also think that this industry, you know, especially in the past, has been filled a lot with a lot of people that, um, I don't know, there's a lot of, like, negativity or, um, kind of, uh, conflict and, uh, competition, which I think has its place. But for me, I just feel like I'm trying to build a community and a brand and a business that promotes a different way of the fashion industry being, you know, where everyone can be kind and collaborate and support each other. And I think that's why, um, I do give a lot of myself, like even in interviews and stuff, like sometimes I'm like I've said, way too much, but I think it's it's nice to, I don't know, be real with people, I guess. Yeah.
U2
33:58
Yeah, I think that definitely. 1s Again. Again to to what you said earlier. Like if it if it means something to you if people will connect with it. I think yeah. It's very true. Um, yeah. Speaking about set um, challenges and and whatnot, I know there's like a lot of, uh, creatives out there that are listening and they wanting to, you know, pursue their creativity in different ways. What advice would you really give to an upcoming creative that you know 1s might look up to your work and what you've created?
U1
34:40
I think. Um. 1s I remember when I was at uni and people used to always tell me to build a network and I would be like, what does that mean? 1s And I think, um, that really what I've realised over the years is a network is basically, um, your friends and people in the business, like, or in a business that you're interested in, that do cool work that you like. And I think I've just
U2
35:12
learned over the years, like the more enthusiasm and like genuine, um, support you can give to people in the industry that you look up to, the more, um, it will come around and people will support you. And I think, you know, like, for example, with Birkenstock, where I've been hosting these workshops, I've been, um, really adamant and saying to people, you know, they're coming to the workshop site, you've just got you've got to be there, you've got to go to the things, you've got to meet the people and just say hello. And you never know what's going to happen. I feel like I've had so many, so much work, so many opportunities and made so many friends just from. I don't know, putting yourself out there. And even when you're scared, I think I try and, like, dare myself to, like, go to an event or something. Yeah.
U1
36:02
Um, even at fashion week, like when, when we met, um, that, um, event at Daniel's, um, bag launch. I had done so much work in the morning, I was super stressed. I had no makeup on, and I didn't look nice. And I was like, there's going to be a lot of cool people at this event, and I'm scared. I don't want to go because I don't look nice and I don't feel like confident, but I just kind of dared myself and I was like, just go there. Like, people are not going to care if you've got makeup on or not. And it's just I think you I don't know, sometimes people think that like when you're a few years into business, you've got it all figured out, but really everyone's just kind of making it up as I go along. So I think don't be put off to try and just, um, give it a go. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, 100%. It's it's true. Um, I think that's that's some great advice. Um, especially, I mean, coming from someone that you've designed probably, or you're probably one of the people that has designed the most amount of unique shoes in the world. If not. The person who has created the most amount of different pairs. Uh. 1s Yeah. So obviously this comes from your your completely like unique approach to to creating footwear. But obviously this also. 1s Presents new challenges per se. Uh, for example, like the communication of each and one of these different pairs, you know,
U2
37:47
can be a challenge, right? Um, yeah. It seems you've found, uh, like a way to at least, like, communicate your work. Um, how do you how do you approach this? How do you approach
U1
38:01
communicating
U2
38:03
your work?
U1
38:04
Yeah. I mean, it's been trial and error, to be honest. I think we, um, 1s as we've developed the collections and now we're starting to make slightly bigger, um, productions of our signature sneakers that we have started to realize just really from listening to our community, listening to feedback of what people want. So, um, in the early days when we sold, um, palimpsest, we just showed like the one picture of, um, like the white low top sneaker basically, and said, like, you will get a version of this, but the patchwork will be different. Um, and luckily, I feel so lucky that all of our, um, kind of early adopters of our brand are very trusting, and they're also very they understand quite deeply like the process. So they, um, luckily everybody was, you know, happy with their shoes that they got. Um, but through more people getting interested in the brand, you know, some people have said to us like, oh, I really love the Patchworks when they look like this, or I really like it when it's, um, slightly more cream or it's slightly more, um, shiny or um, and those things will come naturally, will naturally change throughout the range. So anyway, from this season or from last season, we decided to showcase every single pair in the production. So then we we did like the photos basically of all the sides and all the angles of every single pair, which was a lot of work, but it allowed us to, um, it allowed everybody to have that really bespoke experience where they feel like they're getting an individual pair. That's the only one that exists in the world, and it's especially for them. Wow. Yeah. Sorry. There's a motorbike outside. Is that really loud?
U2
39:56
No worries. I can hear it. Um,
U1
39:59
literally right next to me.
U2
40:01
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned, uh, the palimpsest, this being your your, like, signature silhouette, I would say, um. Yeah. Why why is it called this way? Like, what's what's the story behind that? 1s Um, it's so funny because because it was our first shoot, I felt so much pressure to give it, like a really good name. Um, and basically, palimpsest is a such a nice word that I first found out about, actually, when I was studying on my ma, um, 1s there was, um, a PhD student who was, um, looking at shoes as palimpsest, basically. Um, and it was a really, really interesting research that she was doing. And then that's when I first discovered the word palimpsest. And then since then 1s I saw it kind of like popping up. And essentially it means something reused or altered that still bears traces of its original form. So as a word, as a, 1s um, way to kind of encapsulate what we're doing. Um, I thought it made a lot of sense. And also a palimpsest scroll used to be something that they would use, like back in the, um. 1s Roman Empire, um, to, um, it was basically a skin, like a cow skin, leather skin that they would use to make a scroll, and they would write important documents on the palimpsest. And then, because the way that the ink is written into the the leather, after a period of years, it would fade and then they would reuse it. So you would have all these important documents layered on top of each other on this piece of leather. So I just felt like I had a lot of different meanings as to what. And it made sense for me. Yeah, yeah. And
U1
41:51
I'm and I'm quite arty, so I like an art, you know. Yeah.
U2
41:54
It's super true story. Uh, why do you think this has, uh, helped you per se to, to communicate, uh, your work because there's, like, this story that's so kind of connected to it, and it's easy to almost interpret that story, I
U1
42:16
think. So I think we are very, um. 2s Transparent, I guess, with like what we do and how we make the products. So there's always that narrative that kind of, um, goes across everything that we create. Um. 2s To be honest, I don't know if, if using the word palimpsest really helped or hindered us because it's quite a complicated word and it's hard to say. Um, but but I still stand by it, I like it,
U2
42:48
yeah, I like it too. Especially like, after after hearing, you know, the history of, like, what that word means and whatnot, it very much aligns, um, with your brand as a whole. And I think, yeah, it's it's the.
U1
43:07
The idea of like, you know. Having this story can really it can really help I do believe to for for creatives to to be put their story out there in a way because then even when people like mentioned like who is Helen Kirkham. Like it's quite it's quite easy like, oh yeah, she, she makes these shoes from, from old shoes and whatnot. It's like, but that in itself is a story in like, you know, you can go way deeper into, into that story, but it's like.
U2
43:49
Easy for people to almost like relate to that and understand it.
U1
43:55
Definitely.
U2
43:56
I believe at least
U1
43:58
I don't know. No, I think so as well. Um, sometimes I feel like my whole identity is tied up in a shoe, but it's fine.
U2
44:08
That's why, uh, that could be a good end. Furniture?
U1
44:12
Yeah, exactly. And now we're trying to expand. But now we know how to make the material. We can literally apply it to anything, so it's quite exciting. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's quite beautiful to just, uh. Because, yeah, I do believe, like, furniture would look very cool. Um, yes.
U2
44:28
If you're different patterns. So. Yeah, definitely. And we started making plant pots as well. So that's our first sellable little kind of bit of furniture that we started making. And we actually those plant pots are all made from the waste of our, uh, production. So we get the factory to save all the scraps. They send the scraps back to us, and then we make the plant pots. Wow. Wow. That's. There
U1
44:51
you go. Always thinking. Yeah,
U2
44:54
yeah, I guess, um, one last question I have for you. Um, what are some. Yeah, we like to ask this question after interviews to kind of, you know, be on the lookout. What what are some upcoming creatives that that we should, you know, look out for or.
U1
45:14
Mhm.
U2
45:16
Coming up, one of
U1
45:17
um. Oh I didn't plan in advance. But off the top of my head, um, I know um, there's an incredible another um, British designer called Tiger Akinola that does you might already follow her. She does amazing. Um, she makes a lot of bags from like Patagonia fleeces all nice. And she does a lot of things like that. So she's, um, she's doing really well at the moment and seems to be getting really recognised for her aesthetic, which is, which is great. Um, so love her. So definitely follow her. Um, another creative that we work quite closely with, um, is a Dutch designer called Sanna Visser, and she, I can send you her or I can put it on your little note and then you'll know how to spell it. 2s Awesome. Can I type on that? No. Anyway, I'll do it after. Um. But studio Sana Visser is her Instagram and she is super interesting. She actually, she's doing a lot of work with human hair, so she basically, uh, collects hair and, like, uses it to make products and also just to make ropes mostly. Um, so she's just doing some very unusual and interesting things. Um, and, um, she actually, we collaborated with her on those shoelace bags. She made the handles for us out of shoelaces, out of her. But she used her technique of rope making to make them. Um, so those are two off the top of my head that I think are cool. Cat.
U2
46:54
Yeah, those sounds super cool. Yeah, those those bags turned out absolutely great. Like they. Yeah.
U1
47:02
That's so good. They're going to go on the website soon in the next month or so I think we'll try and get them on the website. So people combine them. So
U2
47:11
yeah. Yeah. Well
U1
47:13
amazing.
